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warchild33 Profile
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Re: GOD & TATTOOS...the neverending battle (thankfully)


Amen. May your journey be blessed and fill with the light of Christ for all to see!!

Jayme
Mar/25/2007, 2:51 pm Link to this post Send Email to warchild33   Send PM to warchild33
 
liberty ink Profile
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Re: GOD & TATTOOS...the neverending battle (thankfully)


I apologize in advance for how long this is but from someone who has tons of tattoos all over me & my husband is a tattoo artist, I finally had to get all of my thoughts together on what I believe the Bible says about tattoos. It's weighed on my heart heavily today & I spent most of my day off researching the Bible & debates about it to come to this conclusion & I thought this might help others who feel conflicted about it. Sorry again that it's so long, but I hope God speaks to you & you are able to get something from this: (also, a little bit of info at the end on what I found about piercing)

The standard argument that most people have against tattoos regarding the Bible is Leviticus 19:28-
"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord."

While I believe that everything in the Bible is there for a purpose & not in vain, I also have to consider that this was written under the old law-
the law that when Christ died for us was replaced under his new law. While of course, what is written in the Old Testament is valid & is applied
to today in very many cases, there are no doubt things that are not valid for Christians- that is those who believe Jesus is the Son of God &
died in our place as the ultimate sacrifice for the world's sins. That being said, it is a perfect example of what is not valid for today: blood
sacrifices of animals for atonement of our sins.
An arguement against those who say what I just have said (that the verse about not printing any marks upon yourself is under the old law &
code of the Old Testament & is not valid for those under the new law) have rebuttled with things like, "There are many other "moral laws’ that
are ONLY forbidden in the Old Testament, such as the human sacrifice of children. No where in the New Testament is this forbidden. Does
that mean that NOW under the New Testament, God Almighty endorses throwing babies into the fire as a human sacrifice?" This quote was
taken from [sign in to see URL]
Well of course it does not mean God endorses throwing babies into the fire as a human sacrifice. The difference in comparing tattooing with
sacrificing babies or children, or any human for that matter would be human sacrifice would be considered MURDER in the New Testament or
anywhere in the Bible.
Getting tattooed not only is not mentioned in the New Testament, but can not really be considered wrong under any other decree in the New
Testament. The only other argument that might be made from the New Testament is:
 
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are
not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."

Yes our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit & we must honor God with our bodies. But there are some things that a lot of Christians
conviently ignore that they do that does not honor their bodies: Over-indulging on foods, being overweight & unhealthy, being out of shape &
not exercising, over-stressing & over- working our bodies, etc. These are all things that are struggles of the flesh that man has to overcome
everyday a long with addictions, etc. But we really like to overlook some of the first indulgences that I mentioned because such a high
percentage of America & Christians a long with them do not take care of their bodies. But what if a person is getting a tattoo to honor God or
to adorn or decorate, therefore honor their body? I think that would be a matter of taste & opinon of what is adorning or decorative & there-
fore up to the individual. because this is so long i have to continue in a following post:
Jun/8/2007, 10:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to liberty ink   Send PM to liberty ink
 
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my long post continued


Now my main purpose with this arugement is not to find what I can in the Bible to manipulate to make my views right. I don't want to take
what's convienent to my beliefs & proclaim it & deny what is inconvienent. I simply want theTRUTH. I've come to the conclusion that getting
a well- designed & thought out tattoo by a professional with quality work & in a safe environment can be honoring your body.
My analagy would be graffiti on a wall. A business may have a long, clean, white wall by their business that is nice & attractive on it's own.
But if someone comes a long & vandalizes it without their permission, especially with scribbled, unskilled "artwork" or tags, it can be an eyesore,
therefore it does not represent or honor that business. Then, on the other hand, that business might think that adding some color and art to
that nice wall would be something that would represent them & decorate the wall. So they search out a skilled graffiti artist to paint
a beautiful mural on the wall. That would be honoring that business, not defiling it or it's property. It is a piece of skillful art that in and of
itself can glorify God as the creator of us all & the ultimate artist.
So I believe that some tattoos depending on what you get can be an honor to God. I think the only way that we can decide what would be a
good tattoo design for us is to imagine if you would be comfortable hanging out with Jesus with that design on your body. I don't know, maybe
a devil or nude-y girl might not bring him honor?
So, back to the old law/new law debate, I feel like the commandments in the book of the law, Leviticus were meant for the time they were
living in & the traditions of the Jews during that era. The problem is deciding what is "old law" & what is "new law". After praying and a ton of
research the best conclusion I can come up with is that if what is commanded in the old law is not confirmed by the new law, whether directly
repeated or the commandment falls under a broader commandment in the new testament, it may not apply to the new law or how we live after
Jesus came to the earth.
For example:
Leviticus19:11-" Do not steal. Do not lie. Do not deceive one another.".

That commandment falls under what is said in the new testament in
Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all
liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

So that command from the old law was confirmed in the New Testament. Another example would be in
Leviticus 19:19 "Keep my decrees. Don't mate two different kinds of animals. Don't plant your fields with two kinds of seed. Don't wear clothes
woven of two kinds of material. "

These decrees were apparently regarding the laws of Jewish tradition at the time & I could not cross reference any thing in the New
Testament regarding what types of material of clothing were ok or not ok, nor anything regarding planting fields with different types of seeds.
As far as mating different kinds of animals, I didn't find anything specifically confirming that in the New Testament. But I'm sure that would
fall under the category of perversion. The same would go with the verse before the do not tattoo verse about not cutting the hair at the sides
or rounding the edges of the beard. Clearly that had something to do with old Testament traditions whether pagan or Jewish.

This exerpt was taken from the above mentioned website:

Leviticus 19:26-28 is a clear condemnation of pagan, witchcraft and heathen practices. Look at the context. Verse 26 is plainly referring to
"enchantment [spells or witchcraft] nor observe times [astrology]. . . Verse 28 is the pagan, demonic practice of bloodletting [cuttings in your
flesh] and tattooing. Why would the Lord stick in the middle a verse that "condemns simply getting a haircut"? Of course, He wouldn’t. . . And
He didn’t. . .

Leviticus 19:26-28 reads:
26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.
27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

The condemnation found in verse 27 of "rounding the corners of your head" or "mar the corners of thy beard" was the forbidding of a
common pagan practice that cut the hair as worship and honor of the hosts of heaven.


OK... so the hair cut thing- that was about how the pagans cut the hair as part of worship to false gods, a long with using enchantment, etc. So
that would also mean that the cutting of their flesh for the dead & printing or tattooing marks upon themselves was in regards to pagan
worship. Tattooing today is not a ritualistic form of pagan worship. It is not the same kind of tattooing as it was then. That would be like saying
since these 3 verses are lumped together that we should not shave our heads or "round the corners of our heads or beards" because that's
like pagan worship, right? If that was the topic it would be ludicris because everyone would just say that that was a tradition then & no one
cares about shaved or rounded heads now as the shape is pretty common. If the rounding of the head was honoring the pagan gods then the
tattooing or cuttings mentioned were honoring the pagan gods as well. But today that does not happen. So it goes back to the old law & the new
law.

Paul says in Romans 7:4-
"So my brothers you also died to the law through the body of Christ that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in
order that we might bear fruit to God."
Verse 6- "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not
in the old way of the written code."

2 Timothy 2:14
"Repeat these basic essentials over and over to God's people. Warn them before God against pious nitpicking, which chips away at the faith. It
just wears everyone out. Concentrate on doing your best for God, work you won't be ashamed of, laying out the truth plain and simple. Stay
clear of pious talk that is only talk. Words are not mere words, you know. If they're not backed by a godly life, they accumulate as poison in
the soul...."

I think what these 3 verses are basically saying is, yes the Law is to be respected & reverenced, but we are not bound to every letter of the
law anymore. If that were the case we would be having to go to a temple every week with a spotless lamb to sacrifice for our sins. Jesus' took
that all away, and now there are more important things than worrying about every letter of the law anymore. That is exactly was the Pharasees
and the Saducees did in Jesus' day & is exactly what got him crucified. This is called legalism. God is concerned with our hearts & how we serve
Him. He is concerned with us loving Him first & loving each other second.

Matthew 22:34-40
"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul
and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'All the Law and
the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Finally I believe Romans 8:1 says it all:
"There is therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of Life set me
free from the law of sin & death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature (my incerpt: meaning that
these laws had to be maintained by sinful man and was nearly impossible to make sure that no law was ever broken), God did by sending His own
Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so, He condemned sin in sinful man in order that the righteous requirements of the
law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature, but according to the Spirit."

I believe that if you have accepted Jesus as the Son of God & your personal Savior, believe in your heart & confess with your mouth, you are
saved. And therefore you are "in Christ Jesus" & are under no condemnation of the law of sin & death. Meeting every letter of the law but
being wicked & self-righteous in your heart is worse than being pure in your heart & not meeting every letter of the law.

The End.


One more thing: a little something I did find in my research in regards to piercing- This is found in Ezekiel 9-12. This chapter was God telling
Ezekiel to preach to Israel about their sinful ways & how all God wanted to do was take them as His own like a groom would a bride. He is
speaking metaphorically of course since He's talking about an entire nation. But what He uses as a metaphor for things obviously a groom would
want to do for a bride as a good thing is interesting-
"Then I washed you in water; yes, I thoroughly washed off your blood, and I anointed you with oil. I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave
you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk. I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists,
and a chain on your neck. And I put a jewel in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head."

So I guess if God would put a jewel IN your nose & earrings IN your ears, it must be ok.
That's all for now...
Jun/8/2007, 10:50 pm Link to this post Send Email to liberty ink   Send PM to liberty ink
 
jakD Profile
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Re: GOD & TATTOOS...the neverending battle (thankfully)


Wow!! You worked your ass off here! I especially like the grafitti reference. I think it was important to put the laws in Leviticus together, to get an idea what sort of context they're used in. Like with the hair [sign in to see URL]! How is that applicable now? And I agree that people often overlook obesity or smoking or any number of other things that we poison our temples with. Yes, it's all about where your heart's at. Ezekial [sign in to see URL]. God advocates piercing! I [sign in to see URL]'s a stretch. But I wouldn't say it's any more of a stretch than using Leviticus to say tattooing in itself is sinful.

I've just skimmed it, and need to spend some more time reading it. [sign in to see URL]. Good job. I'm going to print off your post.
Aug/7/2007, 11:58 pm Link to this post Send Email to jakD   Send PM to jakD
 
CLOTEN618 Profile
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Re: GOD & TATTOOS...the neverending battle (thankfully)


Today I got a link from a friend who is also inked and a Christian to this Baptist site where they seem to be TRYING to have a conversation about this altho a lot of the dudes posting are definietly not cool, others seem to be OK with it, especially this guy Yancy, who seeems nice.

[sign in to see URL]
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Re: GOD & TATTOOS...the neverending battle (thankfully)


The one scripture that I have not seen in this argument is Revalation 19:16 "On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
  
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."

So unless Jesus doodled on Himself with a Sharpie, it sounds like He has a tatoo.null
Oct/20/2007, 9:59 am Link to this post Send Email to prodigalson71   Send PM to prodigalson71
 
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Re: GOD & TATTOOS...the neverending battle (thankfully)


Indeed! "Written on His thigh..." sounds a lot like a case for it. See, if people can butcher Leviticus and use it the way they do as a case against tattooing, we can use Revelations. (I mean, I say "use this" in a lighthearted way, but still...).

Amen brother.
Oct/30/2007, 12:05 am Link to this post Send Email to jakD   Send PM to jakD
 


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